The General Idea

[Mito551]

This is the thing I was thinking about a lot - what's so unique about minetest? Why is it better than minecrap? And no, don't tell me modding api and C++. that's what I understand. but what kind of idea do I have to convey to my friends so that they say "Yeah, you're right, Minetest is better than Minecraft"?
Also, I don't understand where Minetest should head. Because Minetest has this little test in it's name. Which, according to a superstition, will leave it in this testing stage forever. Also, it sounds a bit silly.

I'm doing my best on making this game as good as it obviously can be! And I'm trying to spread the word. My small version of the dwarves could become default of this game... if you, if celeron approved it.

but that's not the main thing. the main thing - I think this game could use the idea of smoothness as it's general idea. and i don't mean like lords of uberdark - that would require the whole rewrite - I mean somewhere in between: minecraft is blocky, lords are really smooth - so let this game be somewhere in between! like: "Is it blocky? Is it smooth? Reasonably combining - %gamename%". I think somewhere close would be Block Story in terms of mobs.

connected topics:
http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=3203
http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=38
http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=5072
http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=5176

[Josh]

I'm doing my best on making this game as good as it obviously can be! And I'm trying to spread the word. My small version of the dwarves could become default of this game... if you, if celeron approved it.

I suggested ounce that Dwarves could become the new minetest, seem's like a good idea to me.

[ArcticStorm]

I'm doing my best on making this game as good as it obviously can be! And I'm trying to spread the word. My small version of the dwarves could become default of this game... if you, if celeron approved it.

I suggested ounce that Dwarves could become the new minetest, seem's like a good idea to me.

-1 not that I don't like your game but minetest default game is better(no mobs what I think makes minetest special,too many things in your game etc.

[Mito551]

I'm doing my best on making this game as good as it obviously can be! And I'm trying to spread the word. My small version of the dwarves could become default of this game... if you, if celeron approved it.

I suggested ounce that Dwarves could become the new minetest, seem's like a good idea to me.

-1 not that I don't like your game but minetest default game is better(no mobs what I think makes minetest special,too many things in your game etc.

i see some reason behind it, but there are mostly people who want to have the well working thing out-of-the-box. there's a limited number of people who use linux for their everyday life and who would like minetest if they knew about. but the number is so small. so, here it's better to have more than less and if somebody doesn't like something - he deletes it, and not the other way.

[4aiman]

Don't mind him, Mito. He's just a newcomer. He didn't make anything for the game, but allready "don't like" something.
I'm not sure about mobs either, but "Do not need? Do NOT install!" is my point of view ;)
How about in-game mod manager with the descriptions? There was one, written in C. Maybe make that with lua & inventory plus?
Also more complicated = more interesting, I've played at your server for a while, but there are LOTS of unexplored and I like it. Way to go!
(Cough... If only mesecons were there... Cough... Cough... At least basic things like pistons and torches... Cough... Cough...)

[Mito551]

Don't mind him, Mito. He's just a newcomer. He didn't make anything for the game, but allready "don't like" something.
I'm not sure about mobs either, but "Do not need? Do NOT install!" is my point of view ;)
How about in-game mod manager with the descriptions? There was one, written in C. Maybe make that with lua & inventory plus?
Also more complicated = more interesting, I've played at your server for a while, but there are LOTS of unexplored and I like it. Way to go!
(Cough... If only mesecons were there... Cough... Cough... At least basic things like pistons and torches... Cough... Cough...)

that sounds like a good idea! though i still think that it should be good out-of-the-box. like minecrap was. like apple products are. this is why this shit is popular.
but this "complicated" stuff needs teaching and explaning. not all who come, come from minecrap, so they know the basics. that concerns my dwarves game. it needs to be taught, but i'm still trying to figure out how to do that.
(Cough... They make everything ...cough... lag... cough)

[4aiman]

As for out-of-box: I'm totally for it and for your game in particular. I'm not sure only about mobs (too tough despite my over 2 years experience in MC - almost ANY engagement results in me beeing squashed ). But mobs should be included. Responsibility for disabling them should lay on a player who don't want them to roam around.

Also, 3 months earlier I would agree with you about mesecons. But they're more stable now. At least basic things.
And I don't want microcontrollers or some industrial stuff (that's not Dwarves ideology, I believe), but just those basics: dwarves may have some mechanisms to open/close doors, mese torches can be treated as "magick" ones etc.

As for explanation, there are achievements mod discussion. Maybe achievents is te key to teach newcomers.
Say 1st dug node will produre achievement unlock, like: "1st block dug!"

But, unlike MC (which have no functionality), MT's ones should provide more info - at least ingridients for the crafts (giving a recipe too may be optional)...

With achievements system basics would be clear enough.

[Mito551]

what i think about was some kind of tutorial map or video. yeah, adding something from mesecons would be good, but I need something to power rails so if i add mesecons, i need to know where are powerrails. if i knew it, i would add. simple as that. but that's going off the topic.
as for mobs - you could customise spawning rates, i agree, there are just too many of them. i just changed that setting on the server...

[PilzAdam]

IMO dont teach newcomers anything.
This game is a sandbox game where you have to discover everything for yourself. There shouldnt be any tutorials.

[4aiman]

IMO dont teach newcomers anything.
This game is a sandbox game where you have to discover everything for yourself. There shouldnt be any tutorials.

Well, if this would be in the form of a mod, then why not? ;)
Anyway, there are such mods as technic and mesecons which aren't that simple as "make a pickaxe".

But we're falling into offtopic...
There are smooth blocks, but they heavily use nodeboxes which can't receive smooth shadows... Any ideas?

[Mito551]

There are smooth blocks, but they heavily use nodeboxes which can't receive smooth shadows... Any ideas?

make smooth shadows! :D if the main developers accept my idea of overall "cubic smoothness" they'll have to do this anyway

IMO dont teach newcomers anything.
This game is a sandbox game where you have to discover everything for yourself. There shouldnt be any tutorials.

that distorts with gamedev idea of four stages of gameplay: learn -> play -> challenge -> suprise. they learn stage here is essential to get players to get to the second stage, where they may get to the third stage which is also quite complicated. you have to give the player challenge that would be hard but possible. and then suited compensation.
and i don't think there should be like a real tutorial, that makes game casual. we have to be careful here and just tell the player what we have - not how to get it.

[babe223]

I find it interesting but adding mobs to the game, I remember I had before mobs would interrresante even if these two mobs return to the game more turns more personalized. mesecons well I'd really like it to be added to the game because he really nice and adds Several things, minetest still has a reasonable sisteama light moves or not I probably will not notice xD.minetest still has a lot of things to be added and some bugs to be more concerted and this all a matter of time to wait and he will add sections things

sorry my bad english

[jojoa1997]

i like your your the dwarves game but the default game is so much more configurable. that is why we are able to have multiple games.

[Mito551]

i like your your the dwarves game but the default game is so much more configurable. that is why we are able to have multiple games.

you see, it's not that about configurability. this game remains like linux - configurable, but unused. so it should be both sweet and configurable, but sweet immediately - out of the box.

[nomohakon]

i like your your the dwarves game but the default game is so much more configurable. that is why we are able to have multiple games.

you see, it's not that about configurability. this game remains like linux - configurable, but unused. so it should be both sweet and configurable, but sweet immediately - out of the box.

If added along with default, im cool with it. If replacing default, im against it.

[Casimir]

The (good) thing is everyone wants to play in a different way. That is where minecraft has it's biggest problem because it is only one game. In minetest we have the ability to add mods in a very easy way, and we have different games. Dwarves is one way to play minetest and it is your way. I agree that minetest_game should have some more mods, it should be complete. But more than complete would be unnecessary. I really like that the default game is so small, it is not packed full of useless stuff like minecraft is.

[jojoa1997]

i like your your the dwarves game but the default game is so much more configurable. that is why we are able to have multiple games.

you see, it's not that about configurability. this game remains like linux - configurable, but unused. so it should be both sweet and configurable, but sweet immediately - out of the box.

If added along with default, im cool with it. If replacing default, im against it.

I agree. Add it as a game mod in the source is fine but don't forget that a lot of space is needed for your game

[4aiman]

This way we don't come to a consensus...
How about 3 different default levels of a game?
- minimal development test;
- minetest_game;
- default_game (here we can add "Dwarves").

[Mito551]

The (good) thing is everyone wants to play in a different way. That is where minecraft has it's biggest problem because it is only one game. In minetest we have the ability to add mods in a very easy way, and we have different games. Dwarves is one way to play minetest and it is your way. I agree that minetest_game should have some more mods, it should be complete. But more than complete would be unnecessary. I really like that the default game is so small, it is not packed full of useless stuff like minecraft is.

that's basically my idea! minetest_game should be complete! i was thinking that just three ores, which don't have much use, is boring, but having lots and lots of them is equally unnecessary.
that's what I wanted to achieve with my dwarves game. and I am working on a small edition of dwarves. which is on my server, in a bit expanded way.
i have created, hopefully, well-balanced structure of materials. that's what minecrap has, this game lacks.

This way we don't come to a consensus...
How about 3 different default levels of a game?
- minimal development test;
- minetest_game;
- default_game (here we can add "Dwarves").

that also sounds like a good idea.

[jojoa1997]

This way we don't come to a consensus...
How about 3 different default levels of a game?
- minimal development test;
- minetest_game;
- default_game (here we can add "Dwarves").

that is what i was thinking from the begining but the thing is that you can download the games from the forum because if you add the game to default then you wont be able to make updates as quick. with you having it only in the forums then you can update when you want and how you want.

[4aiman]

Maybe fork on a github will do. So he wouldn't need to make pull requests.

[Mito551]

you see, my basic idea of completeness out-of-the-box is about getting rid of any necessarity to download anything else. only the game - you got it means you actually can play it and get full experience. if user wants more, he can go on the forums and get more. but that should be much more optional than it is now.

[4aiman]

you see, my basic idea of completeness out-of-the-box is about getting rid of any necessarity to download anything else. only the game - you got it means you actually can play it and get full experience. if user wants more, he can go on the forums and get more. but that should be much more optional than it is now.

I'm not arguig with you. On the contrary, I want to help you to make it easier to distribute your game!

You can allways make your site about dwarves game and it's awesomeness, pay there respect for modders and submitters and provide your custom build which include anything you want.
People wouldn't even know where that download link of yours would lead, they would download a complete game, ready out-of-the-box ;)

I suggested using github only to have your version of minetest up-to-date.
The scheme is like following:

• make a fork of minetest using git
• add there your game with your mods (mods folder can consist of different repos for all the mods you're using in your game)
• compile it (this one wouldn't be easy under windows, though... I'm ready to make cross builds from ubuntu now (YAY!!!) but that isn't you want if I recall correctly)
• test your game in a new environment
• make a shell script which would pack all necessary into 1 big archive
• have that script to move that archive to, say, dropbox folder and rename it to have next version (so people can download any version)
• go to your site and add a new link to a new version

There are many "side-story" sites and forums for minetest and some people said on IRC that having their own site is "-1" (even for mesecons), but the amount of work you put to polish your game should be known. So, in my opinion, if you want complete game now, you can't rely on acceptance of majority or celeron55/submitters. They have other things to care about. And I don't want you being turned down for any period of time.

PS: Mito, you want help - you ask. I'll gladly help you with making your game popular with anything I really can do well.

[Mito551]

i'm really happy you support me and stuff. but github doesn't work for me. i don't know why. and i don't know C++. and i don't even want full dwarves game as the default. i want this game to become something big and great etc. i'm really sad that no one notices that except for few people. whose who lead the project don't notice me much. i'd delete a lot of mods i have in my dwarves game and leave the light version for them to use.

[rubenwardy]

i'm really happy you support me and stuff. but github doesn't work for me. i don't know why. and i don't know C++. and i don't even want full dwarves game as the default. i want this game to become something big and great etc. i'm really sad that no one notices that except for few people. whose who lead the project don't notice me much. i'd delete a lot of mods i have in my dwarves game and leave the light version for them to use.

What OS do you have?

If Windows
-- There is a Graphical interface I use for it

If not
-- Get other people to do it for you

[Mito551]

i'm really happy you support me and stuff. but github doesn't work for me. i don't know why. and i don't know C++. and i don't even want full dwarves game as the default. i want this game to become something big and great etc. i'm really sad that no one notices that except for few people. whose who lead the project don't notice me much. i'd delete a lot of mods i have in my dwarves game and leave the light version for them to use.

What OS do you have?

If Windows
-- There is a Graphical interface I use for it

If not
-- Get other people to do it for you

Windows. And this GUI doesn't work. And I can't fork anything - it gives me 404.

[rubenwardy]

Windows. And this GUI doesn't work. And I can't fork anything - it gives me 404.

Do you click "clone in windows" on the page at github.com? or do you use the client to fork?

[4aiman]

Mito, I know you want to improve this game, but you've said by yourself that "those who lead the project doesn't notice you much". Maybe we can make a poll for every single mod to be included into the default game?
Like it was with bones? We have to start somewhere!
Really, I'll gladly do anything to develop the default game towards what dwarves have atm.
Just ask what you need and those, who care, would help :)

[Mito551]

i'm glad to hear that! anyway, i want to distribute any fork that is being worked on, and is not abandoned long ago with dwarves. with all the credits to forker, builer and me :D

[jojoa1997]

I think haveing chests drop stuff when you dig is needed.