What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

Morn76
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Morn76 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:12

MirceaKitsune wrote:I am planning on changing this, and making a game different from everything Minetest has been used with so far. But it will be a long while. Still hoping for something more exciting to happen till then.


Well, the Freeminer fork has happened, which is pretty much the answer to all suggestions in this thread, isn't it? Personally I still prefer the Minetest approach because I find it easier to start with a blank canvas and add mods as needed for a specific map, rather than starting with something full of features I don't want that I have to disable.

Freeminer performance is terrible on my machine. But for those who want a more complete game, Freeminer is very nice, especially with the dwarves game.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Inocudom » Sat Apr 26, 2014 13:11

Morn76 wrote:
MirceaKitsune wrote:I am planning on changing this, and making a game different from everything Minetest has been used with so far. But it will be a long while. Still hoping for something more exciting to happen till then.


Well, the Freeminer fork has happened, which is pretty much the answer to all suggestions in this thread, isn't it? Personally I still prefer the Minetest approach because I find it easier to start with a blank canvas and add mods as needed for a specific map, rather than starting with something full of features I don't want that I have to disable.

Freeminer performance is terrible on my machine. But for those who want a more complete game, Freeminer is very nice, especially with the dwarves game.

Yes, but builds of Freeminer for Windows are pretty rare and dirt and sand flow in that fork.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Morn76 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 14:00

Inocudom wrote:
Morn76 wrote:
MirceaKitsune wrote:I am planning on changing this, and making a game different from everything Minetest has been used with so far. But it will be a long while. Still hoping for something more exciting to happen till then.


Well, the Freeminer fork has happened, which is pretty much the answer to all suggestions in this thread, isn't it? Personally I still prefer the Minetest approach because I find it easier to start with a blank canvas and add mods as needed for a specific map, rather than starting with something full of features I don't want that I have to disable.

Freeminer performance is terrible on my machine. But for those who want a more complete game, Freeminer is very nice, especially with the dwarves game.

Yes, but builds of Freeminer for Windows are pretty rare and dirt and sand flow in that fork.


So we need to fork the fork? Fork-ception. :-)
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by celeron55 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 14:01

I think the main issue is that Minetest lacks coherence. It's not anything that a well-made subgame couldn't tackle, but none so far have as much content as Minecraft with as much coherence as Minecraft does.

One of the reason I'm putting minetest_game out of its misery is this. It can't have coherence when everyone wants everything from it. Hopefully over time some of its replacements will gain this precious property.

Coherence means at least a couple of things:
  • Very importantly, the game must be balanced. If at some point of playing you have the feeling that if you just do some arbitrary thing, you could be way ahead, the game has failed. At each point of time you should have multiple options to progress towards whatever goal you have, and the options should be roughly equally hard to execute.
  • The way the game is balanced should to some extent match the intuition of the player. (For example, this is where minetest_game's crafting comes short as you can craft anything anywhere without any overhead.)
  • Overally there should be meaningful choices to begin with. Games in their core are all about meaningful choices. If there are 5 options but only one of them gets you forward, that's not a meaningful choice. If there are no options, that's not a meaningful choice.
  • Everything has to match everything else visually. If something looks like it came from a different world, you can't escape that. Quality doesn't matter that much, as long as it's good enough to not be a distraction.
  • Everything in the world has to make sense with everything else in the world. Not directly, but there must be some chain of things that make them make sense in the context of each other.

This is obviously much easier to achieve with a simpler game. Everyone should take a look at Nodetopia, because it succesfully does this. It's too simple for many people though.

EDIT: I must mention that Minecraft doesn't actually do a particularly good job at this either. It's better than minetest_game, but that doesn't mean it would be worth cloning even for getting this effect.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Morn76 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 15:33

celeron55 wrote:EDIT: I must mention that Minecraft doesn't actually do a particularly good job at this either. It's better than minetest_game, but that doesn't mean it would be worth cloning even for getting this effect.


Maybe that is part of the problem: Instead of cloning something that works and is popular (as so much Open Source software does, with rare exceptions like Emacs), there is this attitude now that emulating MC gameplay is bad and MT needs to be original at all cost.

If a project which started out as a straightforward clone suddenly decides it wants to be different and original, this is usually a problem, see Gnome 3. They were fine as long as they cloned OS X, but things went downhill fast when they implemented their own half-baked UI ideas. Gnome 3 has been the best thing to happen to KDE, ever. :-)
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Calinou » Sat Apr 26, 2014 17:43

LazyJ wrote:The default textures could be improved by making the colors richer and more constrasting. Yes, players can install several of the many diverse texture packs available but I'm thinking in terms of the first-time player. Someone like me, who started playing the game with no idea of its potential. Now that Minetest has a texture pack menu, perhaps packaging minetest_game with three versions of the default texture pack (one low-res, one medium, one high) is a solution.


Most of the current textures are saturated enough and have balanced colors.

LazyJ wrote:The environmental lighting is too static. The shadows, what little there are, don't move with the players nor with the light source (sun, torch, flame, etc). Light doesn't shimmer on the ripples in the water, no building blocks are shiny to contrast with all the dull ones. I think I read somewhere that this was due to the limitations of Irrlicht. Maybe Minetest has matured to the point where something other than Irrlicht should be used?


This is easier to say than to do.

LazyJ wrote:The user interface, though functional, is flat and bland. It is as inviting and appealing as a cinder block. RealBadAngel's Unified Inventory mod really improves greatly upon this. Looking back through old screenshots, the earlier, dirt-like background seemed more fitting to a mining game. The darker color receded into the background allowing the focus to be on the menu. The current, light colored background of floating clouds is a bit too busy. Kind of like flashing, blinking ads along the edges of a web article that you are trying to read.


A prettier, larger font (by default) would help a lot. If you disable clouds, all you get is a single-colored brown background.


LazyJ wrote:Sounds go a long way for auditory immersion. As things are currently, a coat closet has more auditory immersion than the default, minetest_game. Granted, Minetest has improved since the days of 0.3.0 but there is still a lot more improvement to be done. The Minetest community seems to have several members skilled in Photoshop/GIMP/Blender. Any audiophiles out there that could lend their equipment and expertise ?


I agree on this, especially for footstep sounds. Carbone has a few other improved sounds, such as throwing or damage sounds.

LazyJ wrote:The environmental sounds of Neuromancer's "Ambience" mod helps but more auditory detail could be incorporated in the default minetest_game. The current batch of default sounds are recycled with varying "gain" levels. Perhaps more sounds could be added? Like the sound of a match being struck for placing torches, a more hammer-hitting-stone like sound for stone with pickaxe or axe but a more rining, metalic sound like when a spade is smacked, broad-side, against a stone.


If this is added, there must be a way to disable this.

LazyJ wrote:All the video games I was used to playing had background music. When I didn't hear any background music (or environmental sounds back then) in Minetest, I thought it was broken. "Good thing I didn't have to pay for this.", I thought to myself.


Minecraft's background music takes several seconds, or even minutes to play – the first time I started it, I thought there was no music.

LazyJ wrote:There are gaps in the game-logic. If I can do this with stone why can't I do it with desert stone? If snow freezes dirt, why won't ice do the same? GingerHunter797 mentioned earlier in this thread that the game seems incomplete. These unfinished game steps, progression, cause and effect, etc. lend to the sense of being incomplete.


I find minetest_game (and its forks) to be fairly idiot-proof, actually; probably more than Minecraft.

LazyJ wrote:There are things in the inventory that are useless and unobtainable without other mods. Rats, vessels, snow, dirt_with_snow, ice and (up until farming and flowers were added ) dyes and wool, for examples of things that make the game fell incomplete.


In minetest_game, rats are legacy items. Some games reimplement them. In Carbone, the way they are implemented is very similar to 0.3.1.

LazyJ wrote:When playing in survival-mode there should be bad guys and monsters to keep you on your toes. Minetest doesn't operate off of game levels or points so defeating the bad guys and monsters needs more incentive. It's been suggested before that monsters should drop valuable items when destroyed (why not have mechanical menaces too, like combination locks and traps to filled chests?).


Your post reminded me to tweak mob drops in Carbone, thanks. ;)

LazyJ wrote:An in-game user manual that pops up like a formspec menu would be helpful to newcomers and Minetest veterans alike. List the basic crafting recipes, what keys do what action and where to get more info on Minetest.


I agree, it is technically possible.

LazyJ wrote:The "/help all" command fills chat with everything from every mod making it very difficult to know which command goes with which mod and, at best, only provides very sparce info about commands and nothing about mods or items.


Open the chat console after opening it. It'd be nice if there was a message that told you to open your chat console – including the key to open it – when you type /help all.


LazyJ wrote:Sometimes I think people complain about a lack of players because the in-game chat is quiet or they are looking for someone to entertain/babysit them.


There are many servers with a nice amount of players. An excessive amount is never funny – it's harder to get resources and to “integrate” into the server.

LazyJ wrote:Another aspect is the quality of the players versus the quantity of players. I'd rather play on a server that has few players but who are more self-reliant than one that is overrun by hyper-active kids with short attention spans expecting everyone to pay attention to them at all times and expecting others to do everything for them. I think Jordach and ShadowNinja may have been hinting at similar thoughts earlier in this thread.


Start a server? Partcipate in an effort of creating a server with mature players?

LazyJ wrote:Minecraft set the pace, set the trend, and set the standards of what players expect when they first play Minetest. The technical differences only matter to the geeks and gurus. The game experience is what is important to the rest of us and in that reguard, Minecraft has delivered where MInetest is still trying to catch-up.


I don't think so. Minecraft is fairly unbalanced, has annoying gameplay — hunger, mobs sometimes too common, crafting table... – and back when I played Minecraft, I frequently felt “lonely” on servers, of any size. It's a matter of playing with friends or not.

LazyJ wrote:The long established point - Minetest is free.


Free as in beer and free as in freedom. More important than just a “free”.

LazyJ wrote:Minetest Needs to be Minetest, not a Minecraft Knock-off


Carbone doesn't follow Minecraft's gameplay or anything else. To it, it's like Minecraft didn't exist.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Jordach » Sat Apr 26, 2014 17:54

Carbone doesn't follow Minecraft's gameplay or anything else. To it, it's like Minecraft didn't exist.
You can tell that to BFD... :)
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by mauvebic » Sat Apr 26, 2014 17:56

Dunno, we're frequently told that minetest doesn't have the resources to develop any given feature, though not so short on resources that precious time isn't wasted on issues like code formatting and implementing every database under the sun. Heck even when the devs do reach a consensus the topic comes back up for debate, sometimes more than once. Of the dozen or so devs only a handful seem to be doing any work, the others could more appropriately be called "Consultants", though i'm not sure micro-managing is something consultants do. Maybe adopt a use-it-or-lose-it posture to developer status?

Bottom line, real people couldn't care less that Minetest is open source or written in C++, that might be pertinent for people playing github, but you need to think what would make playing Minetest more enjoyable. In that regard I wish c55 would bring out the little fuhrer in him and say "these are the features that need to be fixed, and these are the ones to be developed". The OP says MC is more engaging, obviously our mobs suck and have for years, I'd start there.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by twoelk » Sat Apr 26, 2014 18:09

celeron55 wrote:... One of the reason I'm putting minetest_game out of its misery ...


If it is kept as base and example it should be tweaked to do this job as good as possible. This could include checking it's code to offer a good example of coding-style. Do things only in ways they should be done or comment where things are a little "hacky" and of course include as many explaining comments as needed to work as a toturial of sorts. I hope "feature freeze" does not mean it can't be tweaked to fulfill it's new assignment as good as possible.

celeron55 wrote:...
At each point of time you should have multiple options to progress towards whatever goal you have, and the options should be roughly equally hard to execute.
...


I might disagree slightly here. I think a choice should make a difference or otherwise it is useless to offer one. I even think some choices one can make should be bad because otherwise there would be no rewarding feeling for having finally found the best choice. This may be in part what you refer to as "meaningful choice".

As a simple example for this, think of the Mt.Meru mod or the "Roads" server. Climbing those mountains only becomes an achievement if you can fail and you have to find a working path to the top. Of course you can cheat your way up by pillar jumping or something similar but you can still fail as all them old bones on the "Roads" server clearly document.

Don't get me wrong, I am no fan of secret doors that bring you right to the sollution but I think choices should make a difference.

celeron55 wrote:...
Everything has to match everything else visually. If something looks like it came from a different world, you can't escape that. Quality doesn't matter that much, as long as it's good enough to not be a distraction.
...


So if a texture project, or a project including textures becomes a colaborative effort of a team you will need to define standards. Minetest has this to some extand for coding, so not having that for graphics is something missing indeed. Especially as in gaming graphics are very much perceived as signature of the whole project. (The Minetest logo is pretty brilliant in this aspect in my opinion)
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Inocudom » Sat Apr 26, 2014 21:07

mauvebic wrote:The OP says MC is more engaging, obviously our mobs suck and have for years, I'd start there.

I guess not many people know about the mod linked to below:
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=8798
I would say that it is a decent start.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by GingerHunter797 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 22:46

mauvebic wrote:I wish c55 would bring out the little fuhrer in him and say "these are the features that need to be fixed, and these are the ones to be developed".


This. This is what Minetest needs, for someone to take charge and command the devs(no offense to the devs)
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Calinou » Sun Apr 27, 2014 09:54

MirceaKitsune wrote:From a more personal perspective: Whenever I go on a crowded Minecraft server, I quickly start interacting with the environment as well as people. Getting materials, tools, building a house, going underground to mine, etc. I never really get bored... something palpable is almost always going on, and the environment feels very alive itself. Yet when I join a Minetest server, I don't feel like there is much to do; I can farm just like in MC, but don't really feel like bothering. There are hostile mobs, but I don't feel like there's any fun to fight them. There are beautiful cities with very nice houses, yet I don't feel like getting a house there. And the environment feels well... very static and dead. Usually I just parkour around spawn, look at what people are chatting, and eventually make a little house somewhere then get bored and leave.


I suggest playing “for an objective”: PvP, mini-games...

Or, play with people you already know from somewhere else. It's quite funnier than playing alone in your corner.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by MirceaKitsune » Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:24

GingerHunter797 wrote:
mauvebic wrote:I wish c55 would bring out the little fuhrer in him and say "these are the features that need to be fixed, and these are the ones to be developed".


This. This is what Minetest needs, for someone to take charge and command the devs(no offense to the devs)


Kind of, but not quite. That probably doesn't help or isn't the best approach, especially in an open-source project. What I believe to be needed is a serious discussion regarding what the direction of the default gameplay is.

Currently, we have an engine which is capable of a lot of awesome things... way over Minecraft in a lot of aspects. We also have minetest_game and mods for it which offer a lot of items and features. Very good so far. The problem is that we aren't using them all properly, in the right logics and order.

"minetest_game & mods" simply offers a lot of items and some nice features and says "go craft whatever you like, enjoy seeing how these things all work, etc". But it never says "to get this, you must first explore and work quite a bit for this... if you do this, you will also get this reward... if you find this rare item, you can build this rare tool".

Combined with some artistic lacks, I think this is what makes Minetest still look more like a sandbox demo (even if a good one at that) rather than a world you are compelled to be in and interact with.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Calinou » Sun Apr 27, 2014 17:28

MirceaKitsune wrote:if you do this, you will also get this reward... if you find this rare item, you can build this rare tool".


The purpose of diamonds and Mese is to be mined to make precious stuff with it. In some games, you can make more than just tools with them.

MirceaKitsune wrote:Combined with some artistic lacks, I think this is what makes Minetest still look more like a sandbox demo (even if a good one at that) rather than a world you are compelled to be in and interact with.


Do you want the game to have an end like Minecraft, or just more or less objectives “scrambled” around in order to “finish” the game, or just some writing about the game (background story)?


Adding an XP system with rewards (eg. with paintings, you need a certain amount of XP to place some paintings, or you receive items when you reach a certain amount of XP) may add some incentive to play the game.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by MirceaKitsune » Sun Apr 27, 2014 19:22

Actually, I was thinking about experience and achievements. Surely this is one thing we wouldn't want to do too close to Minecraft as well. But having skills you can level might add a new layer of depth. Don't know if and how Minetest should actually attempt this, but the general idea of skills and levels is one that should stick around IMO.

If it was me, I'd do something similar to MMORPG's in this sense; Various skills that can be leveled up by being practiced. But unlike Minecraft where you gain exp orbs and spend them to enhance items (I hate it personally), you simply level up at skills you do often, or get exp points but spend them on your own self at any time. Fighting mobs levels up your attack skill, giving you more damage.... mining levels up your mining skill, helping you break blocks faster... melting things in the furnace levels up your blacksmith skill, making items melt faster for you in a furnace.

Apart from giving more depth to the game, it could also make each player better at different skills. Groups of players could then do things based on those skills... like for example: Someone who has a good attack and someone who has a good mine skill go together underground to mine. The player with the good mining skill does the mining, while the one with the good attack skill protects them from mobs. That is indeed an example of adding more depth :)
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by GingerHunter797 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 22:45

MirceaKitsune wrote:Actually, I was thinking about experience and achievements. Surely this is one thing we wouldn't want to do too close to Minecraft as well. But having skills you can level might add a new layer of depth. Don't know if and how Minetest should actually attempt this, but the general idea of skills and levels is one that should stick around IMO.

If it was me, I'd do something similar to MMORPG's in this sense; Various skills that can be leveled up by being practiced. But unlike Minecraft where you gain exp orbs and spend them to enhance items (I hate it personally), you simply level up at skills you do often, or get exp points but spend them on your own self at any time. Fighting mobs levels up your attack skill, giving you more damage.... mining levels up your mining skill, helping you break blocks faster... melting things in the furnace levels up your blacksmith skill, making items melt faster for you in a furnace.

Apart from giving more depth to the game, it could also make each player better at different skills. Groups of players could then do things based on those skills... like for example: Someone who has a good attack and someone who has a good mine skill go together underground to mine. The player with the good mining skill does the mining, while the one with the good attack skill protects them from mobs. That is indeed an example of adding more depth :)


I absolutely LOVE this idea! This has to be part of the game! It would be like a million times better than Minecraft or any other game I have ever seen. It would be a Sandbox RPG/MMO! So awesome! :O
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Linxx » Mon Apr 28, 2014 00:32

GingerHunter797 wrote:
MirceaKitsune wrote:Actually, I was thinking about experience and achievements. Surely this is one thing we wouldn't want to do too close to Minecraft as well. But having skills you can level might add a new layer of depth. Don't know if and how Minetest should actually attempt this, but the general idea of skills and levels is one that should stick around IMO.

If it was me, I'd do something similar to MMORPG's in this sense; Various skills that can be leveled up by being practiced. But unlike Minecraft where you gain exp orbs and spend them to enhance items (I hate it personally), you simply level up at skills you do often, or get exp points but spend them on your own self at any time. Fighting mobs levels up your attack skill, giving you more damage.... mining levels up your mining skill, helping you break blocks faster... melting things in the furnace levels up your blacksmith skill, making items melt faster for you in a furnace.

Apart from giving more depth to the game, it could also make each player better at different skills. Groups of players could then do things based on those skills... like for example: Someone who has a good attack and someone who has a good mine skill go together underground to mine. The player with the good mining skill does the mining, while the one with the good attack skill protects them from mobs. That is indeed an example of adding more depth :)


I absolutely LOVE this idea! This has to be part of the game! It would be like a million times better than Minecraft or any other game I have ever seen. It would be a Sandbox RPG/MMO! So awesome! :O

maybe it can be done you can follow more than one skill tree
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by MirceaKitsune » Mon Apr 28, 2014 01:13

Linxx wrote:maybe it can be done you can follow more than one skill tree


I was wondering what to do for Minetest. Perhaps I'll consider such a mod sometime :)

Just one problem: Does Lua allow modifying damage / mining / furnace speeds per player? Usually, the tool defines how fast you mine, and IIRC there's no way to offset block breaking speed for individual players. Furnace is defined in Lua, so perhaps a trick can be found... for damage it should also be possible I assume.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Calinou » Mon Apr 28, 2014 14:11

MirceaKitsune wrote:If it was me, I'd do something similar to MMORPG's in this sense; Various skills that can be leveled up by being practiced. But unlike Minecraft where you gain exp orbs and spend them to enhance items (I hate it personally), you simply level up at skills you do often, or get exp points but spend them on your own self at any time. Fighting mobs levels up your attack skill, giving you more damage.... mining levels up your mining skill, helping you break blocks faster... melting things in the furnace levels up your blacksmith skill, making items melt faster for you in a furnace.


This is basically what McMMO does (a CraftBukkit plugin), but by default, it values play time too much (for little benefits) over skill – yet some people manage to get insanely high skills (too much time on their hands?) to literally own you using their axes or fists. Anyway, playing on servers which used McMMO was funnier for me than playing on servers which didn't have it.

Balancing a system like that is possible, I would like to see skill-based leveling in Minetest.

Implementing this in a mod is possible, but tricky (and maybe slow).
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by MirceaKitsune » Tue Apr 29, 2014 22:07

Earlier today I decided to try latest mapgen-v7, but my biome script was outdated. I came across this biome mod and decided to try it out. Once I did, I realized how much biomes and nature actually make a difference, and why it's no wonder that the boring default biomes make everything seem dead and demotivating.

I posted a set of screenshots below. This is what I personally call a lively environment, and what I think Minetest really needs. It's also more than I imagined mgv7 could do, and some beautiful sights I've yet to see in MT until now.

http://i62.tinypic.com/10xuadw.png
http://i59.tinypic.com/jjvau0.png
http://i62.tinypic.com/m9n4f6.png
http://i59.tinypic.com/r76ofq.png
http://i60.tinypic.com/dg0v1d.png
http://i57.tinypic.com/2mgtgup.png
http://i60.tinypic.com/10zp6vq.png
http://i58.tinypic.com/2wnd2co.png
http://i57.tinypic.com/1zco749.png
http://i57.tinypic.com/nv9vyg.png
http://i61.tinypic.com/ipb8ra.png
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banninga.j.m
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by banninga.j.m » Thu May 01, 2014 00:24

All the edges seem sharp in MT compared to MC.
 

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Calinou
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Calinou » Thu May 01, 2014 09:37

banninga.j.m wrote:All the edges seem sharp in MT compared to MC.


What do you mean? Are you talking about textures or block edges?

Enabling mip-mapping (fast) and anisotropic filtering (slower) in the options menu will smoothen textures.

Adding fsaa = 4 in minetest.conf smoothens block edges, but it is quite slow. Minecraft does not offer FSAA without the usage of mods – if you force it in your driver, it will be buggy – so this is a feature Minetest has, but Minecraft lacks.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by jojoa1997 » Thu May 01, 2014 13:29

I have read some of the comments and here is my view. Minetest lacks artistic quality not in the textures but in game itself. For me Minecraft is exploring and that is what I have always liked. Minetest is you see 3 biomes and you have seen them all, oh look a random underground structure with no different ones. I am not saying be like Minecraft but there is not enough features or things to do. There are very few 3rd teir crafting blocks in minetest. I mean come on, I can only build houses out of a handful of items. It is the games like dwarves which add many features to the game that are fun. Also mentioned previously was the challenge level. I die from falling only. Please don't say that is what mods are for. Please look at the [url=commit history]https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/graphs/commit-activity[/url].
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_ga ... 7d3730540f
REALLY!! A year ago was that last time new nodes/items were added. I know features were added but a year since a new node. The problem is that many people want to keep the game the same as it was before and the devs want to fix and better the engine. Make a minetest_classic and a minetest_game as suggested earlier. When I wanted obsidian to be added I had to make the code and fight my way to get it in. Devs please lighten up and not use the excuse if you want a feature make a mod. People want features ingame and they don't want to go through hell to get it added. I have seen too many people leave from this. There used to be tons of pull requests and now there are only a couple. Nobody wants to fight to be recognized. Also the community is harsh. Many don't want new features added and complain when new ones are added. That is why a classic game should be made and only developed to be made faster but with nothing new.
I have had these thoughts for a while and have ranted. Here is a poll with some things on development. http://strawpoll.me/1612005
Edit: Also some more things. One Minecraft adds new feature on a near regular basis. Also if someone doesn't like something that is added then don't use it. Just please don't stop others from getting a potentially good feature. I agree thwerw should be devs for Minetest that can affect the game. But I also believe there should be a minetest_game Dev team with different people.
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by sfan5 » Thu May 01, 2014 14:33

jojoa1997 wrote:I have read some of the comments and here is my view. Minetest lacks artistic quality not in the textures but in game itself. For me Minecraft is exploring and that is what I have always liked. Minetest is you see 3 biomes and you have seen them all, oh look a random underground structure with no different ones. I am not saying be like Minecraft but there is not enough features or things to do. There are very few 3rd teir crafting blocks in minetest. I mean come on, I can only build houses out of a handful of items. It is the games like dwarves which add many features to the game that are fun. Also mentioned previously was the challenge level. I die from falling only. Please don't say that is what mods are for. Please look at the [url=commit history]https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/graphs/commit-activity[/url].
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_ga ... 7d3730540f
REALLY!! A year ago was that last time new nodes/items were added. I know features were added but a year since a new node. The problem is that many people want to keep the game the same as it was before and the devs want to fix and better the engine. Make a minetest_classic and a minetest_game as suggested earlier. When I wanted obsidian to be added I had to make the code and fight my way to get it in. Devs please lighten up and not use the excuse if you want a feature make a mod. People want features ingame and they don't want to go through hell to get it added. I have seen too many people leave from this. There used to be tons of pull requests and now there are only a couple. Nobody wants to fight to be recognized. Also the community is harsh. Many don't want new features added and complain when new ones are added. That is why a classic game should be made and only developed to be made faster but with nothing new.
I have had these thoughts for a while and have ranted. Here is a poll with some things on development. http://strawpoll.me/1612005

minetest_game development is frozen because new subgames will be included with the new release.
Also you poll basically looks like this:
1) what I think
2) my opinion
3) another part of my opinion
Polls need to have multiple different options, representing different views, to make any sense.
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jojoa1997
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by jojoa1997 » Thu May 01, 2014 14:40

sfan5 wrote:
jojoa1997 wrote:I have read some of the comments and here is my view. Minetest lacks artistic quality not in the textures but in game itself. For me Minecraft is exploring and that is what I have always liked. Minetest is you see 3 biomes and you have seen them all, oh look a random underground structure with no different ones. I am not saying be like Minecraft but there is not enough features or things to do. There are very few 3rd teir crafting blocks in minetest. I mean come on, I can only build houses out of a handful of items. It is the games like dwarves which add many features to the game that are fun. Also mentioned previously was the challenge level. I die from falling only. Please don't say that is what mods are for. Please look at the [url=commit history]https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/graphs/commit-activity[/url].
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_ga ... 7d3730540f
REALLY!! A year ago was that last time new nodes/items were added. I know features were added but a year since a new node. The problem is that many people want to keep the game the same as it was before and the devs want to fix and better the engine. Make a minetest_classic and a minetest_game as suggested earlier. When I wanted obsidian to be added I had to make the code and fight my way to get it in. Devs please lighten up and not use the excuse if you want a feature make a mod. People want features ingame and they don't want to go through hell to get it added. I have seen too many people leave from this. There used to be tons of pull requests and now there are only a couple. Nobody wants to fight to be recognized. Also the community is harsh. Many don't want new features added and complain when new ones are added. That is why a classic game should be made and only developed to be made faster but with nothing new.
I have had these thoughts for a while and have ranted. Here is a poll with some things on development. http://strawpoll.me/1612005

minetest_game development is frozen because new subgames will be included with the new release.
Also you poll basically looks like this:
1) what I think
2) my opinion
3) another part of my opinion
Polls need to have multiple different options, representing different views, to make any sense.

I made the poll to see who else had the same opinions as me. Also I don't follow the forums as much because I mostly left minetest for a while. I hope the new subgames doesn't turn out like building, creative, and survival.
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Calinou
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Calinou » Fri May 02, 2014 09:55

jojoa1997 wrote:I have read some of the comments and here is my view. Minetest lacks artistic quality not in the textures but in game itself. For me Minecraft is exploring and that is what I have always liked. Minetest is you see 3 biomes and you have seen them all, oh look a random underground structure with no different ones. I am not saying be like Minecraft but there is not enough features or things to do. There are very few 3rd teir crafting blocks in minetest. I mean come on, I can only build houses out of a handful of items. It is the games like dwarves which add many features to the game that are fun. Also mentioned previously was the challenge level. I die from falling only. Please don't say that is what mods are for. Please look at the [url=commit history]https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/graphs/commit-activity[/url].


minetest_game is frozen; if you want improvements of that game, try minetest_next (aims for stability as in “not changing too much”) or Carbone (which is a bit less afraid of change, may change more often).
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by GingerHunter797 » Sat May 03, 2014 00:11

Calinou wrote:
jojoa1997 wrote:I have read some of the comments and here is my view. Minetest lacks artistic quality not in the textures but in game itself. For me Minecraft is exploring and that is what I have always liked. Minetest is you see 3 biomes and you have seen them all, oh look a random underground structure with no different ones. I am not saying be like Minecraft but there is not enough features or things to do. There are very few 3rd teir crafting blocks in minetest. I mean come on, I can only build houses out of a handful of items. It is the games like dwarves which add many features to the game that are fun. Also mentioned previously was the challenge level. I die from falling only. Please don't say that is what mods are for. Please look at the [url=commit history]https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/graphs/commit-activity[/url].


minetest_game is frozen; if you want improvements of that game, try minetest_next (aims for stability as in “not changing too much”) or Carbone (which is a bit less afraid of change, may change more often).


So is Minetest not being developed anymore?
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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by MirceaKitsune » Sat May 03, 2014 00:17

GingerHunter797 wrote:So is Minetest not being developed anymore?


Of course it is. Just not minetest_game.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by SegFault22 » Sat May 03, 2014 06:11

There should be added a hunger and hydration system, but different than Minecraft's hunger system. The first difference could be the use of a "bar" that represents hunger, rather than a set of 10 images. The same for hydration. Also, food should replenish the hunger over time, rather than instantly, with the speed depending on hydration.
I also think that the player should be able to live with no food for several days, but not be able to live long without water.
There could also be implemented the risk of cave-ins underground, making it more risky to get ores and get out alive.
Finally, the default texture pack could do with some changes - textures need to be more contrasting and saturated, to keep the environment from looking dull.
Regarding there not being anything special about the landscape, just wait for Mapgen v7.
 

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Re: What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

by Krock » Sat May 03, 2014 08:37

SegFault22 wrote:There should be added a hunger and hydration system, but different than Minecraft's hunger system.

There's already a hunger/food mod existing.
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