[Game] Magichet: "The 1.2 'Non-Commercial' Release"

[4aiman]

Hmm...
That's a good idea.
That adds to the idea of having in-game guide.
And can be added easy enough.

Does voxiworld have this?
If yes, then is there a place to browse the code w/o downloading it?

Also, I don't like the current look of the craft guide.
Should I make all formspecs dark - just like the /lang or rules_book menu?

[ABJ]

Thanks!
Yes Voxiworld has this. But no online sources. Maybe I could sign up and try to get Devyn to upload them.
It's your choice lol, I sort of like getting "blinded" when I open 4amn-mgc-inv.
But the hotbar position tends to be confusing at first
:)

EDIT: I think I've got the message to Devyn. I told him to come to the MT forums and post threads here as well and also add a github and post it on his forums and give me a link. I hope he replies soon so we can get his code.

[4aiman]

Uhm.. what's wrong with hotbar positions?


PS: please, use full names or their equivalents, referring to me or my stuff.
What is "ok" to use for referring me: "4aiman", "konsorumaniakku", "chaiman", "KM", "4M", "Чайман".
4aiman is *two* words: tea + maniac.
But don't call me "teaman", please.
I hate it for one particular reason which I don't want to talk about in public :)
I'm ok with having "mgc" to stand for "magichet", though.


PPS:
My choice is to listen to those has something constructive to say. Should anyone want to contribute - you're welcome. Just bear in mind that code should be WTFPL, textures/media should be CC-BY or CC-BY-SA and the game will become partially non-commercial.

[ABJ]

Having inventory hotbar slots at the bottom instead of top of inventory tends to get me. Because I've never played that way before in Minetest. But I guess I'll get used.

[4aiman]

Ah, that's the problem )
It's minecraft-like.
Besides, the bottom row is the one nearest to the hotbar slots.

PS: In fact, It is me, who couldn't get used to minetest-style top row being the hotbar during 3+ years )

[ABJ]

Lolololololol xD
I thought so that it was because it was like Minecraft

[4aiman]

Minecraft was my first sandbox game ever and since then I'm suffering from the imprinting syndrome, y'know? :)
There ARE things which aren't "Ok" in MC. ( <_< Is that even a sentence?)
But overall I like it very much.
Instead of visually copying I'm trying to take the best and make it even better :)

By the way...
Behold!
The first tool-repair mod that behaves EXACTLY like in Minecraft (sums up the remaining wear and adds 5% to that):

Works with ANY tool and doesn't require any additional items to be registered!

[ABJ]

Wow XD nice!
Is it only 2 or can it be more?

And BTW I'm actually rather longing to play Minecraft.
But no, I can't buy it yet :sad.gif:
And man am I worried about Micros**t taking over Mojang.

Back to topic, would it be hard to code that *other* feature?

EDIT: Another question: Is it really that you have my rail textures for boost and brake rails with the default texture for the normal rail? From my observation in the craft guide, it seems so.

[4aiman]

I've typed a lot, but this f***g phpbb ended my session...

So...
1. Only 2. (anvils+blacksmiths will be able to help with more).
2. Other feature is trivial, but I need some rest, so not now.
3. MC is affordable but doesn't cost that much.
4. I had. I need to edit your mod first to take the place of the boost_carts.
5. The server's up!
6. Today's update:
- gStone dust has been considerably speed-up!
- reincarnating in reincarnator now brings back normal size of player's inventory w/o re-joining (bugfix)
- work on achievements
- added MC-like tool fix

I'll add details once rested ;)

[4aiman]

Details! ^____^

1. I can add more. 3 would be sane enough. For more one will need to use anvils or the help of a blacksmith (to do).
2. I need to recode awards mod. I've found out that it wasn't wtfpl but cc-by-sa. What's worse, it's gplv3 now and I can't use that in a non-commercial product.
But be sure to check for updates!
4. But it wasn't the price which made me abandon MC.
I've paid twice as much for a Disgaea D2.
But that game is whole "book" about the power of sardines and "comradery" of the demons angels and humans.
There's even a fully playable "final boss" character (which increase it's stats when surrounded by a "final boss setting" of other demons, has several ultimate attacks and can even transform to a giant cursed sword) within your party!
MC is wa-a-ay behind any game of that nature.

On the other hand there is M$, which has failed to make anything "purchased" by it better upon touching.
They're nothing else but abusers of the community - countless useless services is not something I want.
Even on Linux they manage to try their dirty tricks with ads in their apps.

I don't hate M$ or anything it does, it's just I feel uneasy about their software (knowing the ways of M$).
Just remember Windows 95 and the 160 beta testers.
They just like to cross the line between eagerness and abuse.
That's only my opinion - no need to argue or trying to make me think of them different ;)

4. There are some changes that has to be done to your carts. First of all - recipes. Those should use gStone instead of mese shards.

[ABJ]

GPLV3 the WHAT? You mean to say that licence says you can only SELL it? Or am I just dumb? (Hint: I think I am XD)

Well I personally don't actually feel too good about the fact that M$ has "captured" poor old Mojang (Though I DO know it was Notch who sold it (-_-)). M$ does too much abuse and admits too little. But sadly, my backbone OS happens to be M$ WINDOWS 7 :steam.gif:.

And yeah MC is far behind. But the MAIN reason I want to get MC is because of it's awesome mods. FTB, tornadoes, apocabuckets, various vehicle, water and aircraft mods, and sooooooo many of that like.
And also the existence of (:devil.gif::avo.gif:) that MT isn't yet popular enough for people to start making and many more types of servers that I would love to play on that no one has yet hosted in MT. (all OP servers etc)

And talking about craft recipes, that's actually inevitable because others mostly use MESE.

[rubenwardy]

By "non-comercial product" he means a product that you can't sell. You can't download Magichet and sell it to others.

GPL means that you have to grant the same rights to the end user as were given to you. This means that 4aiman wouldn't be able to make his project non-free as he plans to. Awards is available for free from the forum topic. I previously changed the license to GPL as CC-BY-SA isn't really a valid license for source code.

I've changed the license to LGPL 2.1 now. It's now compatible to be included in minetest_game and forks, without changing the main license to GPL. This means that 4aiman could use it in his project and make his project unfree - although any changes to awards must be relicensed under LGPL (note that since awards is an API, you could license the actual awards as any license you like).

Actually, since mods are modular, you could consider each one an individual program - could you use a GPL among All Rights Reserved mods (extreme case)?

[4aiman]

@ABJ:
The others use mese cause there's no 100% working gstone version out in the web.
But there are some more reasons.
Say, do you have a list of changes in comparison to original carts?

@Rubenwardy:
While mods ARE modular, the division is rather "structural" only - one can't delete some mod from magichet w/o affecting other mods. That's true for many games, but I can't avoid checking for variables from the "ghosts" namespace within 4armour, default, abds and other mods. As well as the fact that I'm not able to not use functions from the "default" mod.

That's a bad design, true.
But magichet was a set of mods that were made to work with the minetest_game.
I don't have enough time to transfer, say, "ghosts" into default and rename many things in many lines of code.
It should be done, but not now.
Besides, the only difference would be the names of items and functions.
Right now it's rather easy to find the piece of code I want to edit based on it's mod name.

-------------------

License:

I want to be able to control my subgame.
Would it be legal to forbid to sell modified (l)gpl-licensed mods? I don't think so.
So, I *will* have to confuse others about what parts they can and they cannot sell.
That will lead to nothing but prolonged debates with "infringerators" (from the word "infringement" - can't think of another existing-word alternative) and markteplaces managers.
I'm tired of that already.
I just want to state that ANY case of commercial use of any part of the game must be discussed with me - that's all.
And I want to reserve the right to do nothing about some of those who didn't ask me but do not cross the line of making money for, namely, zero hours of work.


Besides, I don't want to completely forbid to make money on magichet.
If a person adds much (creates "let's play!" videos, creates audio, creates an overhaul of the game changing a good deal of it, produces music, sells a tutorial map for my game or an in-game tutorial mod) - he or she still will be able to sell their stuff or make money in any other way.

But if the only thing a person did was building an apk and selling my game w/o changing anything - I don't want to feed those people. And I will have all means to shut them down.

So, basically I want to be able to know where my game goes to.
One will need to ask and discuss with me the terms of commercial use.
In case of adding much (in my opinion) it will be absolutely free for a person who asks.
Those who will pay for such a product won't be able to make money by re-selling a product, though.
So, I will protect not only myself, but all those ppl who will make money by permission.


Note, that I *do* plan releasing a version of magichet for android that will have some ads.
I need some source of income to support magichet.
Right now I have job #1, #2, magichet, several community projects.
And I want to get rid of the second one.
I'd rather spend my time on magichet, earn some money and be able to rest a little bit more, so my schedule will look like this: Job #1, magichet, several community projects.

I also plan to support Minetest itself.
It would be nice if by the time I earn some money the site will have a donate button.
============================

So, I'll continue to use my only or WTFPL mods.
I'm half through re-coding achievements, actually. ;)

[rubenwardy]

LGPL explicitly mentions APIs and allows you to use the APIs of LGPL mods from non-free software. Accessing global variables counts as this. But if you're half way through, then just finish :P

I can emphasis with the feeling of "I don't want others to profit on my work".

[4aiman]

And once I use your API I will be forced to confuse people within the license...
That's one of the reasons I re-did many mods.

Thanks for the letter of marque, but I'll pass...



But the thing is, I don't really need an universal API like yours for my purposes. So, I made some less sophisticated API for myself.

Your "feeling" is righteous in only one special case: someone wants to sell my game "as-is" or without any sufficient changes.
Should my game be sold "as-is" - I'm gonna profit from it. If no - I've nothing to loose.
I just don't want to feed some parasites. Those will have to pre-pay.
I've spent 1.5 years of my life on this thing updating magichet daily.
I *am* paying my testers for testing, thus improving the game.
I *am* running a home server and pay my electricity-bills.
So... If someone should benefit from all those investments in the first place - that would be *me*.
Should there arise someone who spent at least that much time on a fork of magichet - I can promise the immediate re-licensing of all my code he/she had used under LGPL or GPL for absolutely *nothing*.
You can take my word on it.


But you've got the wrong "feeling" in general.
I can't really do anything about it but to state one more time: I'm not going to forbid *any* kind of commercial use.
Just re-read my previous post(s).

[rubenwardy]

That's exactly what I was trying to say. Being exploited by others.

[4aiman]

+ @Rubenwardy and those who are interested about what gibberish will be in response

1. "don't want being exploited" is rather different from "don't want other to profit". Those are your words, not mine.
No one knows what anyone actually have in mind before that anyone explains it.
So, use the correct terms and you'll notice I'm not aggressive at all.

2. Do as you wish.
I won't pin a label on you like you has pinned it on me.

I hope that you *do* bear in mind that it wasn't exactly *me* who tried to:
- move the thread to another place regardless of the "confusement" that may meant to those who actually read this thread and wait for the release;
- make me use his software for whatever reason;
- make me change the license to GPL without concern about "cases" I want to control;

Add to that the fact of showing general antipathy to the NC license and my choice of it and irritating me with sarcastic messages trying to *force* to change the license, instead of rather trying to *convince* me to change the license.

How could've you asked why am I so aggressive?
Me?
Aggressive?
Nope dude.
I'm "defensive" - there's a slight distinction.
Certain people's words had stressed me out.
You're amongst them.

It isn't very nice to stress somebody out and call the tension you're responsible for "an unpleasant correspondence" afterwards.
I don't owe you anything. And after your calling me aggressive don't want to.
Be nicer and you will get nicer treatment - that is what the rules which you like so very much has to say.

It would be nice if you can keep true to your words and do not "bother answering" me anymore.
Please, don't say later that those were not equal to what you have had on you mind at the moment.

Overall changes done!
Now filling in the achievements :)

[ABJ]

Good news

I have made a thread about Voxiworld at viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12568

After I see what people have to say about it, I will then decide whether or not to use GitHub. If I do use GitHub, I will be sure to send you the link.

Thanks!

[4aiman]

Good news

Sweet! ^__________________^

Sorry for my absence, guys & gals!
It happened so that I've broken all magichet digging-related functionality.
That is why the server has been down (and continues to stay down).

That was done with one and only purpose: create a new way to define tools and capabilities.
But it turned out I can actually benefit from that and do a lot more while my game is in torn-apart state.

The least one can expect is smth in-between of Terraria (multi-purpose "demi-tools") tools and MC-tools (in terms of hardness, node drops and digging times calculation).

Stay tuned! ;)

[mahmutelmas06]

Could you share your animated chest mod as a seperate mod ?
It is awesome..

[4aiman]

Could you share your animated chest mod as a seperate mod ?
It is awesome..

It's not a mod, it's inside the "default" mod ;)
I don't make separate mods anymore - that is too tiresome and requires to support various things that shouldn't be supported at all. So, I've left alone any trials to support smth that I won't use anyway.

Thus, my chest doesn't support and won't support mods like technic, pipeworks and some other which *override* chests. I guess, that's not very "desirable" to receive a chest that will be overrode by some other mod and lose animated mesh upon that override.



But how about this, mahmutelmas06:
Give me a link to a most "powerful" separate chest mod that supports all mods you'd like to use, and I'll be able to wrap animated mesh around it in no time.

[ABJ]

Thanks chaiman! :D

Let's hope he comes up with a nice mod we haven't seen :D
And it was sort of funny reading about you breaking Magichet. I even laughed a bit. I can just imagine you writing a ton of code, then starting Minetest, and then digging diamond, and just as you think you've got it, all of a sudden VT325RDJ5R4Y43RTF 234RHE and then Angry German Kid. :D
*no offence intended*

[mahmutelmas06]

Could you share your animated chest mod as a seperate mod ?
It is awesome..

But how about this, mahmutelmas06:
Give me a link to a most "powerful" separate chest mod that supports all mods you'd like to use, and I'll be able to wrap animated mesh around it in no time.

Thank you for the answer. I think your subgame is one of powerfull ones in subgame section but we play different subgames too so its always a good to use the mods we like in different subgames.

Not only animation but also your shared chest is so nice.
I think most usefull chest mod is

Your phone or window isn't wide enough to display the code box. If it's a phone, try rotating it to landscape mode.

Code: Select all

https://github.com/Megaf/more_chests

[ABJ]

More chests or fork?
And wow it's nice to see Megaf around.

[4aiman]

@ABJ
I've broke all digging just to create a global digging algorithm :)
That was a part of implementing stuff from my TODO list and a part of my try to make tools more flexible:
The way tools were defined it was impossible to make a tool that would dig both, say, "cracky" and "choppy" things - I had to rely on dig_immediate instead.
But now any tool can effectively break almost any node.
The only difference is that you won't get any drops and will spend a lot (x3.33) of time digging a node with a wrong kind of tool.

But that will reduce the amount of absolutely needed chatcommands, for now it's not essential to have a "/killme" command available to everyone (I won't remove it, but the fact is that the "/killme" command became optional).

From now on one can break-free out of any naturally-generated place even w/o tools.
I think that Notch was wise to make things like this in Minecraft, e.g. to make ppl able to solve their problems instead of running away and learning the "chatcommand magic".

---------------

But the diamond-related bugs ARE funny :)
Some weeks ago I had been working on magnesium spawn code and it was crucial that only one node of magnesium will spawn in overworld. But a single forgotten "break" led to a ~38-degrees-rotated hemisphere (surface only) of magnesium ore.
My reaction was like:
- "WTF?!!"
- "Oh, sweet! Gonna test further!" - I dug a node of magnesium.
- "Holy crap! I've forgotten to NOT spawn mobs on_dig!!..."



I guess it wouldn't hurt to say that there will be a mob called "patient". It will spawn in strongholds (kind of dungeons) and "guard" nearby doors and be somewhat hardcore.
I don't want to spoil the fun telling all about those, but a certain social groups of people behave *exactly* like this in queues in clinics and hospitals throughout entire Russia. Thus came the name - a "patient", for it will calmly wait for the moment you'll open a door. But don't you worry just yet - there will be a way to not be teared apart ;)

===============================================
@mahmutelmas06
The funny thing is, the chests in Magichet were originated from the mod by 0gb_us "more chests" mod too ;)
I've removed useless for me cobble and dropbox chests and developed the rest a bit.

What I had in mind was: addition of any mod that redefines chests (pipeworks?) may result in having old non-animated chests.

Also, I don't really want to support a separate mod, so..
I guess I'd fork Megaf version of a mod and make a pull-request.
Then it will be up to Megaf to merge or not merge and up to anyone else to fork or not fork ;)

PS: Shared chests currently are broken and need to be repaired, so...

[4aiman]

The server's up and running on the same evenings-only basis.
Finally all preparations have been made and now one can experience a Minecraft-like breaking!

ANY tool can dig EVERYTHING but not any tool will let you collect node drops.
E.g. one will be able to dig even obsidian with bare hands, but that will require ~250 seconds and won't give him/her any drops.

Aside from being very useful in terms of getting out of places when your tool suddenly breaks, I like that feature very much. So, don't bother telling me its lame - I may suddenly turn violent and/or aggressive or even say you to "not to try to tell me what to do", thus telling *you* what to do. I'm *that* bad ;)


Also I'm trying some new biome settings - be sure to check far-away-lands.

ENJOY the Magichet!!!



PS: I'm a bit ill, so the chests will have to wait a bit more.

[ABJ]

Well, we saw an example of how *bad* you are a few pages back.
But I still haven't been able to find it.

And do you mean that by no drops digging with bare hands don't give you anything?

And also, talking of biomes, could you scale up the biomes and terrain a bit? ATM MT terrain looks awfully messy.

[4aiman]

Well, we saw an example of how *bad* you are a few pages back.

That's right! Just don't piss me of continuously and I'll turn friendly pink and fluffy :)

I may easily continue this talk on my "badness" in a constructive kind of a way in a separate thread @offtopic or PM.
Create a thread and ask me to join if you want to talk about it.

But I still haven't been able to find it.

If anyone want to talk about that - PM me. I haven't deleted anything by myself - take my word on it.
Just note that *searching for it* or, what's worse, *quoting* or *mentioning it* without reading thoroughly the whole conversation - is a good way to starting to piss me off yet again.
Also, I don't like ppl who feel free to change or completely erase everything that have been said by them up until now.
In two words, be *nice*.
Trying to ruin anyone's efforts is so NOT very nice.
But I'll let The Entity of The Moon to judge everyone.

And do you mean that by no drops digging with bare hands don't give you anything?

It would've been easier for you to google for "Minecraft Breaking" than asking me, since I doubt I can explain that in a sentence.

Anyway, here it is:

Your phone or window isn't wide enough to display the code box. If it's a phone, try rotating it to landscape mode.

Code: Select all

- There are 6 types of tools: hand, pick, axe, hoe, sword, shears, spade.

- There are 9 types of materials: hand, wood, stone, iron, bronze, mese, 
                                  gold/silver,  diamond, mythril.

- Every node can be properly dug with a certain type of a tool made
  of a certain material or a tool that is better.


- If some node is set to be dug by a tool of type "pick" and the material
  of a tool it can be dug is set to "stone" then:

        - the node can be dug by ANY tool or no tool.

        - you'll get the drops ONLY if you've dug the node
          with a "pick" type of tool that is "stone" or better.

        - in all cases the digging times are being divided
          by some value: the better the material - the bigger the divider.

        - in case the tool is worse than "stone", the digging times
          will be multiplied by some value.

- There are nodes that have tool set to "hand".
  In this case the material of a tool and the tool type are ignored.


In-game that means that one will be able to break everything by his/her hand only.
But "to break" <> "to get drops".
That encourages one to craft tools if he/she want to mine resources but makes it non-essential to explore the world.

And also, talking of biomes, could you scale up the biomes and terrain a bit? ATM MT terrain looks awfully messy.

Until I'll get the results I want to see in a small scale it's unlikely that I would do that.
Besides, I possess no knowledge on how that scaling should be done.
I know where I can get that, but right now I'm testing the mapgen output.

I'd like to hear out how's much is "a bit" nevertheless, cause that's something that should be done someday.

[ABJ]

I sense scorn :/
But you're right. Googling it would be easier. I just didn't *know* that.

[4aiman]

I sense scorn :/
But you're right. Googling it would be easier. I just didn't *know* that.

Here we go again...

May I ask a question?
Pray tell me why do you hate me so much?
I've tried to explain the thing you've asked about as good as I can.

Please, read the following and call me aggressive:

What I did:
Have explained about the breaking in the way I could, told you the exact reason why it's better to google for it, which is, by the way

since I doubt I can explain that in a sentence

, answered every your statement in great detail and asked for help.

What you did:
Have sensed scorn.
Mocked me by your

I just didn't *know* that.

Ignored my question.