Calinou wrote:http://dev.minetest.net/Changelog for the changelog, by the way.
BadWolf wrote: 'how' soon is 'soon'
cHyper wrote:BadWolf wrote: 'how' soon is 'soon'
when its done... ;)
wcwyes wrote:That's no way to treat a project. Anyone who treats a project like that is bound to have many errors in their project. Projects need goals or you lose heart and stop paying attention to them, then when you come back you forget some of the problems, which results in bad programming.
solars wrote:I don't think so... Termines are the base of the most errors in software.
"It's not good" - "But it's release day" <- worst situation!
solars wrote:wcwyes wrote:That's no way to treat a project. Anyone who treats a project like that is bound to have many errors in their project. Projects need goals or you lose heart and stop paying attention to them, then when you come back you forget some of the problems, which results in bad programming.
I don't think so... Termines are the base of the most errors in software.
"It's not good" - "But it's release day" <- worst situation!
One of the biggest and best distributions are done when it's done: Debian. And Debian is one of the best and the most comprehensive distribution of all.
No termin is a way for good programming. In open source, the most projects are better with no termin. With termin, you must forget some of the problems to hold the termin, without, you can get rid of the problems and test the release without deadline pressure.
I think, the best way in every softwareproject is: It's done when it's done!
wcwyes wrote:I'd like to see you run a company like that.
Jordach wrote:Releases are made when the devs feel that the GitHub version doesn't work properly with the 0.x.x stable, "x" being the replacement for a version number.
leo_rockway wrote:wcwyes wrote:I'd like to see you run a company like that.
The great news is that Minetest is not a company. This is the way free software works, it releases when it's ready and there's no point in releasing something that's not ready. If you're in a hurry to check the code out, it's publicly available so you don't even have to wait: go to github and clone it.
If you want to see a feature implemented and you can code, then by all means fork it and do a pull request. If you can't code then you can offer bounties (or artwork or learn how to code). If you're not ready for any of those things then how about you let those working on the code work on it at the pace they want to?
Minetest is ran by volunteers who work on the code on their own free time for their own reasons (I guess mostly because they think it's fun). Are you going to ask them to put deadlines on something they are working on as volunteers for fun? Seriously? And then accuse them of having a faulty brain? You sure have some nerve.
...leo_rockway wrote:Are you going to ask them to put deadlines on something they are working on as volunteers for fun?
The key is I'm not asking anything. It only right to constantly challenge yourself. It's something every sane person needs. Everything you do should be important to you like a job. Of course your job should be something you enjoy. But none the less you should be passionate about it, and not treat it like something that doesn't really matter. And obviously as Casimir pointed out your theory is definitely not working in not having a deadline.leo_rockway wrote:You sure have some nerve.
wcwyes wrote:leo_rockway wrote:wcwyes wrote:I'd like to see you run a company like that.
The great news is that Minetest is not a company. This is the way free software works, it releases when it's ready and there's no point in releasing something that's not ready. If you're in a hurry to check the code out, it's publicly available so you don't even have to wait: go to github and clone it.
If you want to see a feature implemented and you can code, then by all means fork it and do a pull request. If you can't code then you can offer bounties (or artwork or learn how to code). If you're not ready for any of those things then how about you let those working on the code work on it at the pace they want to?
Minetest is ran by volunteers who work on the code on their own free time for their own reasons (I guess mostly because they think it's fun). Are you going to ask them to put deadlines on something they are working on as volunteers for fun? Seriously? And then accuse them of having a faulty brain? You sure have some nerve.
I love the way you say
wcwyes wrote:The key is I'm not asking anything. It only right to constantly challenge yourself. It's something every sane person needs. Everything you do should be important to you like a job. Of course your job should be something you enjoy. But none the less you should be passionate about it, and not treat it like something that doesn't really matter. And obviously as Casimir pointed out your theory is definitely not working in not having a deadline.leo_rockway wrote:You sure have some nerve.
leo_rockway wrote:wcwyes wrote:leo_rockway wrote:
The great news is that Minetest is not a company. This is the way free software works, it releases when it's ready and there's no point in releasing something that's not ready. If you're in a hurry to check the code out, it's publicly available so you don't even have to wait: go to github and clone it.
If you want to see a feature implemented and you can code, then by all means fork it and do a pull request. If you can't code then you can offer bounties (or artwork or learn how to code). If you're not ready for any of those things then how about you let those working on the code work on it at the pace they want to?
Minetest is ran by volunteers who work on the code on their own free time for their own reasons (I guess mostly because they think it's fun). Are you going to ask them to put deadlines on something they are working on as volunteers for fun? Seriously? And then accuse them of having a faulty brain? You sure have some nerve.
I love the way you say
Thank you =]wcwyes wrote:The key is I'm not asking anything. It only right to constantly challenge yourself. It's something every sane person needs. Everything you do should be important to you like a job. Of course your job should be something you enjoy. But none the less you should be passionate about it, and not treat it like something that doesn't really matter. And obviously as Casimir pointed out your theory is definitely not working in not having a deadline.leo_rockway wrote:You sure have some nerve.
I don't understand how having a deadline makes anything more "passionate". You don't know what drives each of the developers. Maybe they want to get better at coding, maybe they want to have fun, maybe they want to include a feature so they can make their friends drop MC and start using MT... I think that if you take something too seriously with a deadline, you start feeling like it's a chore and the fun disappears (deadlines and whiny people...).
What Casimir fails to see is that it's the modders that are making use of newer features and that's not the responsibility of the engine developers, nor the mods that stop working with people using GIT (I mean, if you're going to build MT in a rolling release schedule then you should know that's bound to happen).
Developers do have their own goals of things they want to implement, they just don't have deadlines for them. When they get coded, they get coded.
EDIT: just wanted to add that no matter what you say or what I say, ultimately the deadlines or no deadlines it's up to the actual devs.
solars wrote:This talk over release dates is crappy business administrator talk!
there are people running projects with this software, some of them depend on the unstable version right now, some of those people are waiting for the stable version of 0.4.8 to be able to achieve their plans. I'm pretty sure BadWolf is one of those people.solars wrote:Release termins are important in teams where one part is waiting for the other and a CEO must coordinate them.
wcwyes wrote:solars wrote:This talk over release dates is crappy business administrator talk!
wow, you've caught me. Is that a bad thing? or are you saying all business admins are crappy?
wcwyes wrote:there are people running projects with this software, some of them depend on the unstable version right now, some of those people are waiting for the stable version of 0.4.8 to be able to achieve their plans. I'm pretty sure BadWolf is one of those people.
wcwyes wrote:No one said anything about a rolling release schedule( You are right about the doom associated with that).
wcwyes wrote:Basically for your own sanity you should decide what you want to add or make better, and estimate how long that should take you(I.E. a deadline).
wcwyes wrote:When the deadline is approaching you then can evaluate what you've been working on. If you're not going to make your deadline you can look at what's holding you back and ask yourself "is it necessary for the release, or can I add it later?", If the answer is yes then you obviously need to re evaluate your time frame for completion. Doing this not only makes you a better programmer but allows you to better grasp how long certain things will take. Most new programmers will want to add everything under the sun, but that's just not possible. As for the devs I would hope they have a deadline even if they're keeping it to themselves, for some obscure, but possibly reasonable reason.
wcwyes wrote:But to remind you, the devs aren't just making this for themselves, but for every one of us too, where as individual modders may or may not be doing what they are doing for themselves. Regardless, all of the features created by the devs "ARE" the devs responsibilities whether used by modders or used by users.
I believe solars was the one who started using the term deadlineleo_rockway wrote:
I agree here, except on the choice of word. If you maintain that by deadline you mean "rough estimation" then that's great. There is no obscure reason, though. Go to IRC and talk to the devs; they are not unreachable.
solars wrote:No termin is a way for good programming. In open source, the most projects are better with no termin. With termin, you must forget some of the problems to hold the termin, without, you can get rid of the problems and test the release without deadline pressure.
leo_rockway wrote:wcwyes wrote:But to remind you, the devs aren't just making this for themselves, but for every one of us too, where as individual modders may or may not be doing what they are doing for themselves. Regardless, all of the features created by the devs "ARE" the devs responsibilities whether used by modders or used by users.
No, the devs don't have to answer to anybody: "This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE."
wcwyes wrote:I believe solars was the one who started using the term deadlineleo_rockway wrote:
I agree here, except on the choice of word. If you maintain that by deadline you mean "rough estimation" then that's great. There is no obscure reason, though. Go to IRC and talk to the devs; they are not unreachable.solars wrote:No termin is a way for good programming. In open source, the most projects are better with no termin. With termin, you must forget some of the problems to hold the termin, without, you can get rid of the problems and test the release without deadline pressure.
wcwyes wrote:leo_rockway wrote:wcwyes wrote:But to remind you, the devs aren't just making this for themselves, but for every one of us too, where as individual modders may or may not be doing what they are doing for themselves. Regardless, all of the features created by the devs "ARE" the devs responsibilities whether used by modders or used by users.
No, the devs don't have to answer to anybody: "This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE."
I never said anything about the devs answering to anyone, but to make something for other people you do have a responsibility to those people, that's why the most recent version is marked unstable because they are being responsible in that aspect. I can't say whether they have an estimated time of release, I was hoping a dev would chime in to answer BadWolf's question
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests